Every listing that I have ever seen lists the number of bedrooms present in the home. The number of bedrooms seems to be a big selling point. What is to be done when it is discovered that for "technical" reasons one or more of these rooms is not really a bedroom? Are there any liability issues, if some one declares that a room is a bedroom and the buyer uses that room as a bedroom but can't get out of the room in an emergency----and someone dies? Are buyers aware that the "sales" definition of "bedroom" may not have anything to do with the "real" definition of a bedroom?
First of all----I thought I would make a list of some of the things that are required by "today's standards" regarding bedrooms. After all wouldn't that ultimately define whether a room is a bedroom or not----for it to have all the elements that they are "required" to have for the particular jurisdiction?
Based on modern standards, here is a partial list of what is required (with some variations by jurisdiction). If any of these elements are not present----it is "technically" not a bedroom (or living space). This list is not an attempt to list every possible scenario but is designed to overwhelm the reader with just how much is actually involved in getting a room to be a "bedroom." I hope some of the other inspectors will chime in with other "qualifications" and "requirements" to extend this already large list.
1. Natural light glazing greater than 8 percent of floor area (unless approved artificial)
a. Safety glass where required
2. Natural ventilation (unless approved mechanical type)
3. A Door (some jurisdictions)
4. Sleeping rooms have to have at least one openable emergency escape and rescue opening.
a. Sill height of not more than 44 inches above the floor.
b. Window well necessary for egress at below grade bedrooms. (minimum 9 sq ft horizontally in well---36" minimum width away from window)
c. Egress openings of 5.7 square feet (5 feet for rooms at grade)
d. Minimum height of 24 inches
e. Minimum width of 20 inches
f. Grilles/bars/screens must be easily removable from the inside without special tools
5. Bedroom size must be at least 70 sq ft
6. Bedrooms not less than 7 feet in any horizontal dimension.
7. Areas of the space that are less than 7' high don't count in sq footage.
8. Minimum ceiling height of 7'
9. Smoke alarm/detector----hard wired and battery backup
a. In each sleeping room.
b. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.
10. AFCI protected 120 volt outlets:
a. Receptacles
b. Light fixtures
c. Switches
d. 120 volt wall heaters and fans
e. Smoke alarm detectors
(with any of these components not AFCI protected the room would no longer be in compliance and loose its designation as a bedroom----technically).
11. No open flame appliances (with exceptions): Fireplaces, furnaces, water heaters
12. Source of heat.
Listings seem to use a "sales-shorthand" definition of bedrooms based on selectively choosing some of the things on this list of required conditions. At some point the space becomes a "bedroom with defects," and placing a clear-cut line on when the space is not a bedroom and a "bedroom with defects" is not always easy. This is the result of the large number of older homes built prior to modern standards or built at times of no standards, or built without permits.
Interestingly enough the code does not actually address the presence of a closet----yet most assume they are required and is typically part of the "sales-shorthand" definition of a bedroom.
Do these listings have the potential of misleading buyers regarding the use of these spaces----creating not only liability but potentially reduced value later on? In some cases I would think so.
Let's take the room in the following picture.
This is newer (eight years old) construction----and is the Master "Bedroom."
No smoke alarm/detector.
No means of egress (note the very high undersized window). The lower windows on the right (one is out of the picture) are both fixed panes.
No heat.
It does have a closet and a bed.
In good conscience can we call this a bedroom? If it would not pass inspection as a "habitable" room and does not meet code requirements for bedrooms----how can we call it a bedroom?
In my inspection report I like to state the number of bedrooms. Sometimes I can not make that number the same as the listing information. Sometimes instead of the "Upper SE Bedroom," it becomes the "Upper SE Room." It is my feeble attempt to truly inform the buyer of what they are getting themselves into. If the fixes to make it a real bedroom are simple, that would be a different story.
Charles Buell
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Thanks for the specifications. I have really seen some people ssstttrrreeetttccchhh what they consider to be a bedroom. Don't they realize once people have gotten in to see the place they are going to be able to determine that the room really doesn't serve as a bedroom?
I hate those homes that you go to show thinking it has 4-5 bedrooms, well they may be rooms but they are NOT bedrooms, thanks for the post
With this room having no heat source the the appraiser would not count this as a bedroom, rather it would be counted as storage. So no, it can't be counted as a bedroom or as living space for that matter. It is storage. Good point Charles.
David, I agree. I really worry about a bunch of kids stuffed into rooms that don't meet some of the more safety related "requirements"
Crystal, I am often questioning that 4 and 5th "bedroom" in the basement with the 6' ceilings and the no egress windows.
Patty, thanks----so it sounds like the appraiser has a standard of what is a bedroom? Perhaps that is where the listing info comes from----as to what constitutes a bedroom? Hopefully some appraisers will chime in here.
Charles,
This does not qualify as a master suite in a home, darn it. How did I miss that one. Believe or not is garage conversion was said to be a bedroom. Of cousre I burst it laughing, inside of me, I don't think nobody heard me. Just because the garage door was removed and a wall put in it's place.
~ Life is Good
Roy, sure looks like a storage room to me----maybe a "giant" walk-in closet:)
How could that home have even gotten a CO? I guess some areas are less strict, or some one dropped $100 bills on the floor!
Robert, in this case the whole project was slightly "under the radar"----kind of "expanded" the permit for the "electrical service change" a wee bit:)
Thank you for the reminders. It's important information. I've been in many houses looking for that fourth bedroom only to realize I was standing in it. To me it looked like a hall.
Take care.
Wow, great info.
How does an 8 yr old home not have a heat source ? And why the heck would you have 'fixed panes' on the accessible windows ?
And that builder had a license ??? ... I am shocked that a newer home was built that way. Maybe it's different code req's that allowed it, but it just seems bizarre to build it that way ?
Anyway - very insightful post !! ...thanks for taking so much time on it :o)
Cindy, thanks, and that is an additional qualifier that could be on my list----you can't go through one "bedroom" to get to another.
Sheldon, I guess they liked their bedrooms colder:) Real good question on the windows---relatively easy to change them out with the proper windows however. This was a "homeowner-builder" situation----and not built under permit as near as I can tell. They obviously had considerable "information/knowledge"----just not quite enough, and a perfect example of the need for permits, codes and oversight.
Charlie,
I had a basement room yesterday that I pointed out is not safe if used as a bedroom.
Mr Charles,
I developed a neck rash last time I spent time in your room.
Nutsy
Steve, bedrooms in basements often have problems in my experience.
Nutsy, you seem to forget that you never were at my house----you got the wrong house and were at my very upset neighbors house. And, it is not a "rash" it is mange.
Thanks for the specs.
I've seen people try to make a bedroom out of a garage, even smaller than Roy's, a mudroom, and a closet. People are a never ending source of amusement!
Richard---it gets more amazing every day as more and more of this information becomes---"just a click away."
So shouldn't new construction be adhearing to these guidelines, at least for value and selling purposes?
Tony and Libby----don't you just hate the word "should?" I would think so---us inspectors can be seen as "value-protectors" I guess:)
Steve - this is a great post. We run into this here quite often. Yes it says there are 4 bedrooms but we can only find 3??? etc. Plus many keep calling rooms bedrooms here but they don't have a closet. How about a study??? office??? I temporarily lived in a home that the owners had decided to build a master "retreat" to the basement. Yikes. It freaked me out. The two tiny windows high on the wall did not make me feel comfortable and I never could sleep in there.~Rita
Rita, I think it must be the appraisers that are looking for closets in bedrooms (and buyers of course), but I don't think there is any "code" requirement for there to be a closet. Sounds like your bedroom with the really high windows might not meet ventilation and natural light and egress requirements. Charles (Steve) Buell:)
The appraisers have the hard part justifing 4 bedroom sales prices on 3 bed and a lg storage room homes. permission to Re-Blog. cheryl(had this discussion just today)willis
Hey Steve/Charles everything works until you run into the grandfather clause. You know that guy in the dingy red suit who needs a red and brown walker with runners instead of wheels. Here if the house is not being remodeled many of those items on your list are ignored. Of course, there is also the case where literary license is used by the agent. A rose is no longer a rose, it's a pansy. It would be nice if someone could make the rules not only universal, but apply to all concerned.
Thanks Steve. Next they'll call you nutsy.
Cheryl---I would like to know more about how appraisers do their job. Charles (permission granted) Buell.
Jack, Steve and I are both Nutsy:)
Charles - Thanks for the information. A bedroom less than 70 sq. ft.? That rules out most of Europe then and more than one hotel I've stayed in. Haha.
Charles, I've never seen this list before. Where does it come from? I agree that if all these requirements were met, there'd be fewer bedrooms! I may have to bookmark the list for future use. I hope it doesn't get broadcast, though, because all of us realtors probably have called something that didn't qualify a bedroom.
HHHmmm, interesting list of requirements to qualify as a bedroom. I was aware of having an emergency egress and the closet requirement, but not all the others. Thanks for the information.
Sean Allen
Interesting facts. Here, smoke detectors have to be outside of the sleeping quarters. The thinking being that once the smoke gets to the bedrooms...it's too late
Wow, you brought up a lot of points I didn't realize. I'm going to have to hang onto this info. Thanks so much for educating us, Charles!
Man the craziness. I like the definition of pornography. I know it when I see it.
Matt, you might be right---most jail cells as well:) 7'x10' isn't very big though.
Barbara, this is just a little list I put together sort of compiling a lot of the current IRC requirements for a room to be considered living space and a bedroom. Obviously the codes applicable for any given area and the year the home was built is going to create a lot of exceptions to this list. It is pretty accurate for most jurisdictions that have adopted the 2003 IRC----and that is a huge percentage of the country.
Sean, as you can see from my list closets isn't even required by code---but it seems to be expected by appraisers. I wish I could get an appraiser to come on and clarify their take on that.
Jim, again it would depend on what codes you are following. Here in new construction they have to be inside and outside. Take for example an upstairs with a hallway and 4 bedrooms. There would be a smoke alarm/detector in each room and one in the hallway.
Kristen, I am not sure that I can really "educate" except to get everyone aware that there are a ton of variables and that even in new construction what makes a room a bedroom in one area might not be approved as a bedroom in another area. Each inspector kind of has to know their area to some extent to provide the best information.
Mike---now that is an interesting approach:)
Charlie,
Funny but just yesterday I was checking a window. Up 52". Also, don't forget that the closet in the bedroom must also have a bare incandescent light bulb to hang a cap on.
Charles - I am in an area with many, many illegals which have, generally and for the most part, ruined homes they have "bought." (sarcasm noted...) I am used to 8, 9, 10 "bedrooms" in a house, with interesting second "kitchens," "bathrooms," - some stuff you wouldn't believe. It would be comical if not so tragic.
Here the rule of thumb (who cares about trhe code in many cases...) is a basement window no smaller than 30"x40" and no higher than 40". I tell people that to be safe, an older, fat person should be able to get out. It sounds like a joke, but it is not! The fire safety codes are written for the least able.
In your newer "bedroom" above, it could be the floor guys, or drywall guys, covered over the register. Happens!
No etchings?
Charles, not to mention that our buyers need to know and then remember how many bedrooms they're REALLY buying because that's the number of bedrooms they'll be SELLING in a couple of years!
Charles - Wow, this is one heck of a checklist! I have three bedrooms but currently only use one of them as such. Nice post for consumers and professionals alike.
A big problem in our rural areas is that a lot of septic systems are often not rated for that fourth bedroom so we can't call it that, although folks have been using it that way for years and all those kids and laundry never caused a plumbing problem. It's a study, a bonus room, a home office, a hobby room - and the picture in the MLS shows the bed and the dresser. I tell buyers the whole truth, but they sometimes miss a needed fourth room because it's not listed in MLS that way, when they really don't care about the septic rating so long as they know the facts.
You've never noticed that agents are too 'optimistic' on what constitutes a BR or a FR? LOL, agents are just nuts when they start inputting listings. How about they can't even count rooms correctly! Yeah the utility closet with the washer & dryer could be a room - when? You bring up excellent issues regarding fire & general safety when something happens and you have to get out of that 'room'. My area is now requiring 'fat windows' for those oversized folks that might not make it out of a bedroom window in a fire. That I heard just a few months ago on a fire rehab in our area! That's what the village is calling them - not me folks! Maybe they should call them 'chubby casements?'.
Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather leave the assessment of what constitutes a bedroom (or any other "room" for that matter) to the agents and appraiser...and then there's the county auditor, of course. At least one of our auditors assesses square footage of bonafide living space simply in terms of "finished to the level of the primary living area" (such as finished lower levels).
Basics such as egress windows should be identified in the MLS listing. Closets should be shown in the photographs. If the listing info indicates central heating, then it should be fed to all rooms qualified as living space for legal and taxing purposes.
So now we're going to have home inspectors determine how to define living spaces? In Ohio, anyone can simply hang out a "home inspector" shingle...no license required, while the rest of us in real estate must have one. I'm thinking that most buyers (not to mention agents) can qualify rooms for themselves according to their needs.
Steve, I have made a note to add "bare bulb to hang hat on" to "the List":)
Jay, I love those old turn of the century homes turned "Fraternity House"----those make for some interesting "bedrooms":) In the case I mentioned where the bedroom had no heat----it had two registers----they just didn't have any ducts run to them. They had left the door off the room so that head coming up from downstairs "heated" the room:)
Gretchen----too true
Jason, thanks---kinda like Santa----he's got a list and he's checking it twice":)
Mary, thanks----the relationship between the size of the septic system and the number of bedrooms is another example of something that would be on the list.
Lyn, haven't heard of the "fat windows" yet in my area----I am not surprized though. As a society we are definately getting "heavier.
Doug, I am not thinking it is the "job" of the inspector to figure out whether a room is a bedroom or not. But when someone tells me a room is----and it clearly isn't because significant things from my list are missing that were required when it was built then I think it is part of providing good service to my buyer to inform them.
I have seen more than a few homes here where the "bedrooms " on the second floor do not have heat. This especially common in small capes. I have pointed out to my clients that since the space is not heated it is technically;1 not a bedroom and 2 going to be cold. This information is usually not well received by all parties present.
James, do you have any idea when the "codes" started requiring heat in bedrooms? You are right too, that no heat in bedrooms in Connecticut would lead to cold bedrooms:) Aside from human comfort though, whenever you have rooms that are kept radically colder from the rest of the home, one is just asking for fungal growth/mold in the colder rooms.
As home inspectors we cannot soft sell the lack of egress from a bedroom. At least around here that fact, if pointed out, does not seem to be a negative that makes parties mad. It is a fact, based on common sense but sometimes people do not think of it. The inspector must. If a home inspector is the only party involved who recognizes that someone might die in a fire, because someone has turned a room into an unsafe beroom, then I think it hard to argue that this inspector should fail to disclose that. As for lack of a closet, well I probably would not say much about that. As for lack of heat, that I would mention as I would in any other livable room. In fact, in the new standards for this state, that is mandatory reporting. People can figure out some way to resolve the problems -- fire escape, bigger windows, baseboard heater. But for an inspector to leave these issues to the agents leaves the inspectors rear-end bare. Also, at least on the escape route, no clue if appraisers even look at that one. I know that what they look at is way less than what an inspector not only looks at but tests. A deadly fire, because a home was sold with an unsafe bedroom, and all professionals involved missed the fact is a nightmare lawsuit.
It is impossible to see everything at a home. If the guy lacking a high school diploma sees a dangerous exposed electric wire, I will not disregard that tip because he did not finish school.
Steve----good points
Mr Charles
If you now claim that I did not stay at your home, then perhaps you can drop the frivolous counter lawsuit in which you claim that my uncles left seeds and a mess in your home. How about just getting on with paying Nutsy. The photo below pretty well establishes my employment.
Nutsy
Pound sand
Charles that is some very good information. I've seen some rooms that should never have been classified as a bedroom and some rooms that should have. Thanks for the clarification.
Charlie, I have no clue as to when heat was required by code in a bedroom. Some of these small capes here were built with unfinished second floors. Consequently some times the heat was left out when they got around to finishing off that floor.
My experience has been every time that I have discovered there is no heat in these bedrooms the buyers were totally unaware. There are just too many unpleasant things that are the result of unheated rooms. Some of those for me could involve attorneys. For the client uncomfortable rooms and the fungal growths.
Anita, you are welcome---definitions of "bedrooms" seems to be all over the place.
James, I hear you loud and clear.
Happy new year, Charles! This is great information and whether we like it or not, it is important for Realtors to understand what they are listing or taking their buyers to see. I have toured "bedrooms" where you can't stand up ("But it's a children's bedroom and they aren't that tall!"), freezing cold rooms in the winter while the rest of the house was warm, and bedrooms with no closet and no windows. I can't in good conscience tell my clients they are true bedrooms.
I also once held a house open for another agent who had advertised it as a 4 bedroom house, and I never did figure out where the 4th bedroom was! Neither did any of my open house guests. Maybe it was a typo? And the bathroom in the third bedroom on the top floor had only a toilet - no sink or tub or shower (but there was a full bath in the garage (??). No problem - whoever is in that bedroom can go two floors down and take their showers in the garage.
Susan, happy new year to you as well. Interesting----perhaps we can have a definition of bedroom based on whether it is for children or short people or not:) I often have trouble finding that "4th" bedroom as well---but it sure looks good on the listing:) While access to toilet facilities is nice---that isn't even addressed in the code. A little bit off topic, but I had a bathroom the other day that was listed as a full bathroom but you couldn't use the tub as "stand-up shower because the tub sat on a platform and water wouldn't drain into the tub. My buyer hadn't noticed but was glad I did.
I play "where's that extra bedroom?" very often. I think it's more prevalent in older homes. Thanks for this post.
Kelsey, it does seem like it.
Interesting list! We have several bedrooms in this area that might not make that 70sq ft rule! And we call those bedrooms that are connected "tandem bedrooms." which btw, if staged right, makes for a really nice Master Suite with sitting room.
Mostly what we run into here is whether it has a closet or an egress window. i see them called non-conforming bedrooms.
And we have a lot of those 1800's, early 1900's homes with nary a closet in sight! So neat that it's not on your list! Wish an appraiser would chime in too!
Sheree, thanks for commenting----I am not sure how many appraisers we have here on the site.
OMG! I have a "bedroom" in my basement that could be problematic. Bars on the window!
Patricia, sometimes these bar contraptions have release mechanisms that make them OK on bedroom windows----hopefully yours does:)
I have seen more bad garage conversions than I have seen good garage conversions and I can spot ‘em a mile away. There is the typical 1-car conversion. There are the 2-car garages that are converted into 1-car and pulling half the garage sqft into the house. Better yet, garage doors still on the front and if you open them up you get a 6'-deep storage then a wall (that's just weird). Or garage doors still on the front but they do not open because there is a wall behind them. Oh, I have seen some weird garage conversions. However the pictures posted here look very good